Re: The Bible and the Prohesies fortelling the coming of the Prophet Mohamed

[Elm]

Hello Carlos

The list of names is kept in the Vatican and available for anyone to research it is not hidden from anyone.

I’m glad you’re quoting the Bible it means your open minded. The quote you gave me from the gospel of Mark is an easy one. What does “gospel” mean? The gospel means good news. The good news isn’t something it’s somebody and that somebody is Jesus Christ. Jesus taught about himself. “I am the way, the truth and the life” -John 14:6. The 4 gospels written are the good news written for us. That’s why I mentioned earlier we are not a “people of the book”. We follow the teachings of Jesus Christ which handed to his Church to preach.

I know Gospel means good news. But It's not possible that Jesus left his people without a holy book that would guide them. His followers would believe in him not in other people. Also, the Jews who were against Jesus were a threat. So a guidance was needed.
Anyway, If you are not people of the book, why is the book still there then, Carlos? I mean what's the use in keeping it?
And I am not sure what you meant by "handed to his church". Could you please explain to me ?

Elm lets put aside both the Bible and Quran for a moment. I have asked you a couple of times but you still haven’t responded to my question. My question is how do you know for sure the teachings of Mohammed are inspired by God? Please use another excuse apart from “the Quran has no contradictions” like I said earlier so do many other books and novels throughout the world they have no contradictions either that proves nothing. How do you know for sure the teachings of Mohammed are inspired by God?

Sorry Carlos.But I answered that question before. And the last time you asked , I didn't answer becuase we want to focus on one thing and then when we are done with it, we can discuss something else so we are not confused.

Elm lets put aside both the Bible and Quran for a moment.

I can't put the Quran aside when talking about Muhammad peace be upon him. Because he came with it. You depend on the church, but we don't depend on mosques or sheikhs. We have a holy book that everyone must read and think to know what Islam is and what Muhammad peace be upon him was. We also have what I told you about before "isnad" (chain of trustworthy narrators) who narrated the prophet muhammad's peace be upon him sayings and actions.
I will copy and paste my previous answer to this question. And if you have more questions about that, you can ask.
The Quran is God's words that were revealed to
Muhammad peace be upon him through the angel Gabriel in Arabic, and it
is still in its original language. There are no versions and the Quran
you see in other languages are just the translations of its meanings .
The only speaker in the Quran is God and there are no mistakes or
contradictions in it. God challenges those who may have doubts about
the Quran to write a chapter like the ones in the Quran. Many have
tried but failed.
There are scientific miracles in the Quran that
science just discovered. So how could someone living in a desert who
did not read nor write know all that if it was not God's words?
The Quran came to us in memory and in written forms.
The prophet Muhammad's companions wrote down The Quran. And these authors' biographies are known.
As
for the prophet's peace be upon him sayings, like I said before, no
saying is accepted unless it has isnad (chain of trustworthy narrators)

[Carlos]

Please use another excuse apart from “the Quran has no contradictions”

Hi Well I am not a part of this discussion and Elm would reply the question anyway but while reading i realized this thing.. Let's try to be nicer to each other please. We can not call each other's truths, replies as "excuses", right? "Reasons" would make much more sense. Thank you

Of course I mean no disrespect

It's hard communicating via keyboard people may get the wrong impression. I respect all religions even if I don't agree with them.

[Carlos]

Hi Elm,

We are not a people of the book means we do not solely depend on the Bible. The Bible is one of three pillars we base truth. Sacred tradition is the second pillar and the third pillar is the Magestirium teaching (Unity of the Pope and Bishops). One cannot exist without the other two e.g. Scared tradition cannot be revealed to the full unless it is in light of the Bible and the Magestirium.

“Go, therefore, and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you.” – Matthew 28:11-12

Jesus commanded his Apostles to teach them to observe all that he has commanded (taught). He did not say “go and write the New Testament for all” he left the method of teaching to his Church. That’s why the Magestirium is necessary to reveal the truth.

One thing I never quite understood and please feel free to correct me on this one Elm. It is believed by Muslims when they go to Heaven they communicate with each other in Arabic because that’s the language God communicated with Mohammed. Arabic is not an original language it is a descendant of Syriac and Hebrew. If Arabic is not an original language but is a man made language why would they communicate in Arabic in Heaven?

[Elm]

We do not know what language people in heaven speak. What some people say about Arabic spoken in heaven is based on a fabricated saying of the prophet peace be upon him.He did not say that.
So we do not know what language is spoken in heaven.

[Carlos]

Ok cool thanks for answering

I have another question. In Islam Jesus is called “Christ” (meaning the Messiah “the anointed one”) why is he called “Christ” what does that title mean in the Islamic sense?

[Elm]

Ok cool thanks for answering

I have another question. In Islam Jesus is called “Christ” (meaning the Messiah “the anointed one”) why is he called “Christ” what does that title mean in the Islamic sense?

In Arabic,Christ is called maseeh which means "anointed".
Every prophet is an anointed one of God. But the title Maseeh is exclusively reserved for Jesus peace be upon him. And this is not unusual. There are other honorific titles which may be applied to more than one prophet, yet being made exclusively to one by usage. For example, Rasulu Allah which means "messenger of God". This title isapplied to Moses and Jesus. But it has become synonymous only with Muhammad,the prophet of Islam among Muslims.
Another example is Kaleemu Allah which means "one who God spoke with". This title is never used but for Moses ,but we believe that Allah (God) spoke with many prophets.

[Carlos]

Sure I can understand that.

There has to be a reason why each person is given a title, usually it’s to reflect their calling by God for a particular mission. Why is Jesus explicitly called El Maseeh?

[Elm]

Christ is not the only title Jesus peace be upon him has. He's mentioned by his name in 28 places in the Holy Quran. And also addressed with respect as "son of Mary" , Maseeh(Christ) , ,AbduAllah (servant of God), and messenger of God. There are other titles.
So why the Maseeh? Why the messenger of God? Why the servant of God? All prophets are anointed, messengers, and servants of God. But some titles are exclusively reserved for some prophets out of respect and honor.

"The Messiah, son of Mary, was no more than a messenger and many messengers passed away before him. His mother was exceedingly truthful, and they both ate food. "Quran 5:75

[Carlos]

Hi Elm,

Thanks for answering, I have another question for you.

Why is Mohammed considered the greatest among the prophets?

[Elm]

It's my pleasure to answer you Carlos and thank you for asking.
I could write many pages telling you why Muhammad peace be upon him was the greatest. But you may think it is an exaggeration since I am a Muslim.
But I will let you read these words said by non-Muslims about the prophet peace be up on him.

Michael H. Hart, The 100: A Ranking of the Most Influential Persons in History, New York: Hart Publishing Company, Inc. 1978, p. 33:
“My choice of Muhammad to lead the list of the world’s most influential persons may surprise some readers and may be questioned by others, but he was the only man in history who was supremely successful on both the religious and secular level.”
George Bernard Shaw said about him:
“He must be called the Saviour of Humanity. I believe that if a man like him were to assume the dictatorship of the modern world, he would succeed in solving its problems in a way that would bring it much needed peace and happiness.”
LaMartine, the renowned historian speaking on the essentials of human greatness wonders:
“If greatness of purpose, smallness of means and astounding results are the three criteria of human genius, who could dare to compare any great man in modern history with Muhammad? The most famous men created arms, laws and empires only. They founded, if anything at all, no more than material powers which often crumbled away before their eyes. This man moved not only armies, legislation, empires, peoples and dynasties, but millions of men in one-third of the then inhabited world; and more than that, he moved the altars, the gods, the religions, the ideas, the beliefs and souls....his forbearance in victory, his ambition, which was entirely devoted to one idea and in no manner striving for an empire; his endless prayers, his mystic conversations with God, his death and his triumph after death; all these attest not to an imposture but to a firm conviction which gave him the power to restore a dogma. This dogma was two-fold, the unity of God and the immateriality of God; the former telling what God is, the latter telling what God is not; the one overthrowing false gods with the sword, the other starting an idea with the words.”
“Philosopher, orator, apostle, legislator, warrior, conqueror of ideas, restorer of rational dogmas, of a cult without images, the founder of twenty terrestrial empires and of one spiritual empire, that is Muhammad. As regards all the standards by which Human Greatness may be measured, we may well ask, Is there any man greater than he?”
Thomas Carlyle in his (Heroes and Heroworship), was simply amazed as to:
“how one man single-handedly, could weld warring tribes and wandering Bedouins into a most powerful and civilized nation in less than two decades.”
Diwan Chand Sharma wrote:
“Muhammad was the soul of kindness, and his influence was felt and never forgotten by those around him.”
Prof. Ramakrishna Rao says:
“The personality of Muhammad, it is most difficult to get into the whole truth of it. Only a glimpse of it I can catch. What a dramatic succession of picturesque scenes! There is Muhammad, the Prophet. There is Muhammad, the Warrior; Muhammad, the Businessman; Muhammad, the Statesman; Muhammad, the Orator; Muhammad, the Reformer; Muhammad, the Refuge of Orphans; Muhammad, the Protector of Slaves; Muhammad, the Emancipator of Women; Muhammad, the Judge; Muhammad, the Saint. All in all these magnificent roles, in all these departments of human activities, he is alike a hero.”

[Carlos]

Hi Elm,

No doubt Mohammed has had a major influence in history and in the world. What I was looking for was specifics e.g. As Christians we believe Abraham was great because of his firm faith in God and his destiny to be the father of many descendants or more importantly Jesus Christ saved humanity from death of sin by his own death and resurrection restoring us once again as children of God.

What are some of Mohammed’s attributes that made him a prophet?

[Elm]

Please check the link 'prophet of Islam' below to know about Muhammad peace be upon him.
The article is written by shaikh Yusuf estes


Prophet of Islam

[Rahamim]

Hi folks! It has been a while since I last posted here.

So you agree man tampered with the bible… to be specific, with the Jewish historical books, but if they were not included in the bible, the bible would be lacking something somehow.
I don't know what it would lack, and I don't know why something tampered with would be included in a holy book. But If the historical books were tampered with, it is possible that the other books in the bible were
tampered with too.

I don't believe that the Bible has been tampered with. By human input I meant that all the text of the whole Bible is not inspired by the Holy Spirit. While I do believe that the jewish history books belong to the word of God, I still recognize human input in them. The Bible is perfect in the sense that in it we have more than enough in order to know Christ and to know how we can be saved. It is not perfect in the sense that every word and letter is straight from God. We don't worship the Book. We worship God, who has given it to us. There are believers though that believe that there is no human input in the Bible.

Jesus Christ ultimately is the very Word of God himself, as it says in John 1:1.

You said Jesus sent his Holy spirit to dwell in his followers, and he kept his promise. And his followers of course would not dare change a thing. And they would just say and do what Jesus came with. But if they were really accurate like you said, then why all these differences?

paul says "And walk in love, as Christ loved us and gave himself up for us, a fragrant offering and sacrifice to God. Ephesians 5:2
Jesus says:
"Go and learn what this means, `I desire mercy, and not sacrifice.' Matthew 9:13
Jesus said he did not desire sacrifice. He did not want it in other words. But in Eph 5:2: Paul says Jesus gave up himself for them. giving up means Jesus wanted to. But that's not what Jesus wanted.

I'll cite the words that you cited above. 'Go and learn what this means'. :-) What does Jesus mean when he says that he desires mercy and not sacrifice? You often can't take a verse out of it's context. If you don't know the context, you may not understand the single verse. Let's put it here:

10 Then it happened that as Jesus was reclining at the table in the house, behold, many tax collectors and sinners came and were dining with Jesus and His disciples.
11 When the Pharisees saw this, they said to His disciples, “Why is your Teacher eating with the tax collectors and sinners?”
12 But when Jesus heard this, He said, “It is not those who are healthy who need a physician, but those who are sick.
13 “But go and learn what this means: ‘I DESIRE COMPASSION, AND NOT SACRIFICE,’ for I did not come to call the righteous, but sinners.”

So in verse 13 Jesus is referring to a passage in the book of Hosea, which says, For I desired mercy, and not sacrifice; and the knowledge of God more than burnt offerings. (Hosea 6:6). He is admonishing the pharisees, which emphasized outward rituals in their faith (the OT animal sacrifices, for example), but left out the love and forgiveness of God. They considered themselves righteous before God and would not have relations with sinners like the tax collectors, which were corrupt. Jesus reminds them of what has been written in the Scriptures and is telling them that God desires compassion, mercy and forgiveness, and not just the outward rituals, for they are vain if your heart is not right before God. Reading the context of a verse often clears up much questions.

Also,
Paul says"For though you have countless guides in Christ, you do not have many fathers. For I became your father in Christ Jesus through the gospel. 1Corinthians 4:15
Jesus says"And call no man your father on earth, for you have one Father, who is in heaven" Matthew 23:9
Paul says he is the father. But in the second verse, Jesus says call no one father on earth.

There are more, but can you please tell me why these differences ?

Paul was the one that brought the gospel of Christ to the corinthians. It is through Paul that they became believers. At the time 1 Corintians was written, the corinthian church already had many teachers and pastors with them, but they had become believers through the work of Paul in their area. Paul is therefore like a 'father' to them. It isn't against Christ's commandment in Matthew 23:9. We have to look this in context again.

Jesus says this about the pharisees, which were very hypocritical.

6 They love the place of honor at banquets and the chief seats in the synagogues,
7 and respectful greetings in the market places, and being called Rabbi by men.
8 But do not be called Rabbi; for One is your Teacher, and you are all brothers.
9 Do not call anyone on earth your father; for One is your Father, He who is in heaven.
10 Do not be called leaders; for One is your Leader, that is, Christ.
11 But the greatest among you shall be your servant.
12 Whoever exalts himself shall be humbled; and whoever humbles himself shall be exalted.

A christian should not call anyone with a divine title. We shouldn't call anyone with the honorific title 'Rabbi', for we have only one true Teacher, Christ himself. Nor should we call anyone 'father'. It's ok to call your own daddy father, but you shouldn't consider anyone 'father' in a religious sense. Some christian denominations do this though, even though there is a clear command against this. The catholic and orthodox churches come to mind. They do a lot of like things against the Bible anyways.

That's it for now. I have to confess it takes time for me to write in english because of the language barrier. Perhaps I'll continue some other time.